I have heard that they cancelled the OICW block 1 program this month which is also known as the XM8? Is this true? Why would they do such a thing? It looked like a great weapon program. What was possibly wrong with it? You had assault rifle, carbine, SAW, and sharpshooter versions all with attachment points for rangefinders, lights, lasers, grenade launchers and whatever else and the weapon was much more reliable than the M16 and M4 weapons. What is the military going to use to replace these weapons now. They are good but they cannot keep going forever.

xm8 =xm29

m8 is more realible and is in field testing

No the XM8 is a whole weapon system. It serves as the 5.56x45mm portion of the XM29 however. XM29 = XM8 carbine + XM25 grenade launcher.

I will sacrifice a dev to the gods each month the M8 LMWS and RAH-66A Comanche aren't in the game.

The XM-8 has been dead for a while. Runor has it the Army is even looking at bullpups from experience gleaned from Iraq.

And the M-4 and M-16 may not last forever, but they have one thing going for them. Civilian innovation. Civilian shooters will constantly be developing and marketing new upgrades and accessories for a long time to come. The next generation US military rifle won't have that. And I believe it is one of the reasons the Army is looking very hard at the gas piston conversions.

i guess im goig to have to go to picatinny arsenal where they do all R+ D and testing on the m-8. new jersey, i live about 45 minutes from the arsenal.

I heard it wasn't cancelled but that there was a ruling that the US Army gave favor to the Developer of the M8, and did not allow other companies to compete for the next-gen rifle. The Army is looking into other company's developments, and if they find none better than the M8 then they will return to it. Not exactly sure on this though.

I'm sure the lobbying of groups such as armalite are the principle reason for this - I'd imagine they would have a huge influence in American politics.

XM-8 is dead for good.

The US army is currently considering alot of thing right now...

Like, should we switch to a new type of ammuntion? And can we just improve the M-16/M-4 instead of buying a whole new system.

lol. i think its amazing how the US army can possibly waste hundreds of millions of dollars (!!!) into a freaking G36 modification and then simply abandon the project and willing to spend another billion on something (arguably) better.

what in the world are you guys doing there ? firing platinum bullets on tests or something ??? or may be buying golden toilet seats for the testers ?

i think the entire AK-100 series was made on a budget of like a $500,000 or even less .

I would take the weapon of the US army over that AK any day of the week.

Oh and to answer your question about why? Because we can

I actually.... agree.

its not really the army, but the pentigons and politions pet projects

(sorry about spelling in a hurry)

its also amazing how we can sink billions into resaerching the feasability of a nuclear bunker buster bomb

\ that is a good seeing as they're never gonna be worth it

My stance on this is the same as the RAH-66A Comanche:

The M8 LMWS and the Comanche were things that made POE stand out from the crowd. If we put in the gas-piston M16 and M4, nobody will really notice. It will be more accurate, but the majority will think, "Oh, another M16". If we put in the M8 and RAH-66, people will think, "Wow, that's a realy cool gun/helicopter. POE is quite unique!". Same as the Su-47, how many mods have it? Not many. It would be unique and cool to the mod.

Because the XM-8 broke the bureacratic rules. And now its dead.

H&K is redisigning them. There was some production issue. Also Hyper, the RAH-66 is dead. Not coming back dead. ever.

The M8 would have been much better than the M16. Stupid politics a great weapon. The PCAP system was alot better than the rail system too.

So what is going to replace the M16 and M4 now?

The XM8 is not totally dead however. Improved versions will be probably tested in next trails for a M16 and M4 replacement. FN SCAR L and H might be issued on a limited basis to Special Forces units until then.

If the politicians would stay out of the military's business, then MANY MANY MANY problems would never have happened. A great example of this is vietnam, if the army generals had been the ones in charge we might have won. Politicians don't know a damn thing about the military, they just like wasting and then attempting to save money.

It was in POE1, it should be in POE2.

Look, im sure the POE devs will make all the right decisions.

Ingame aside, the XM-8 did not offer much over the M-16 family. It was a good concept, but it was not justifiable over purchasing new, better, uppers for the 1000's of M-16s in service now.

The US army needs to figure out if it will move up to a new rifle cartridge, or stick with the 5.56mm, and move from there.

In essence, they basically said this: "The XM-8 was good, but there is something better out there, we just dont know what it is yet".

As for politics, i disagree. Sometimes they do good by axing programs that get a little to large for their own good. Other times... no.

One thing the military cut that Id love to see back is the M8 Buford AGS. So far its a system similar to the Stryker MGS, but with less problems.

I hope this is not the developer's mantra for developing PoE2, or we're going to get the, "been there, done that" syndrome, and many people won't play the mod. If PoE2 has nothing in common with PoE, that would be a step in the right direction. We already know that the PoE formula works, and repeating it is a sure fire way to wind up mediocre.

The dev team needs to come out and say, "if it's not realistic, it's not going in the game," or "if it's fun/popular, we ARE putting it in the game regardless of realism." I also wish they would make a public statement addressing this very issue so we can stop debating topics like mothballed weapons systems or far-fetched game mechanics and move on to what will make the mod better, and not debate what will suit the palettes of various tasters.

That said, I like the M8, but I'm not sure it fits in the mod. I actually would enjoy playing a mod that doesn't feature the US armed forces for a change. If they just keep it as a Eurasian conflict, it will still rock, and will stand out. Now I'm going off course, but food for thought anyway.

Argh.

The XM-8 DID NOT OFFER ANY REAL ADVANTAGE OVER THE M-16!.

The only + it had oiver the M-16 was the gas system. And it wasn't that much better, as it was essentially an AR-18 gas system. (Which HK ripped off for the G36 series. Kind of fitting that the proposed replacement for Stoner's AR15 was another of his brainchildren.)

The G36, SL8, and the XM-8 were vunerable to cracking. This is because some idiot decided to make the recievers out of plastic.

Ballistically, the XM-8 was going to offer worse performance than the M-4.
This was due to its 12 inch barrel, which is too short for fragmentation with M-855.

And HK did have a huge advantage. They had a 3 year start on everyone else and they still got their ###### handed to them in SCAR trials. Twice.

So,
NO XM-8 in POE2!!!111

Well, i'm sure Devs could whack the storyline and claim the RAH-66 was secretly in production after decades of high publicity uneased the U.S. military...

what?

In other news, MGL-140 GL won the USMC contract and competition.

http://defensereview.com/modules.php?name=...article&sid=800

sweet

k, that thing pwns :eek:

what about the new HK m416 thing, something like that, with a new gass system that doesnt transfer heat to alot of places, new sights (iron), and some innovation that makes cleanning almost un neccesary

Your choice pal...you will die either way. It's like Rpg against Stryker. You can waste money on it, but still a 5years old can shoot you for 500 bucks.

Cheers...






GUess this could go to the ukrainians...

First HK did not get their "###### handed to them" in the SCAR trails. Second different versions of the XM8 have different barrel lengths. Third quit it with the 5.56x45mm cartridge is not lethal crap. I know for a fact that it is quite lethal. I will say that it does have some problems however.

The M8 (as it would have been known if adopted) would have been an improvement. However you are probably right that we can make a better weapon.

Has anyone heard rumors about a program called JSR or Joint Service Rifle. I still don't know if this is true or not however but I heard they are looking for a weapon system every branch will adopt. If this program is for real I bet we will see improved XM8s being tested. I hope if they do choose the XM8 Colt or another American company produces it however.

the deader the xm8, the better. no clear benefits whatsoever to anybody other than hk.

are you hearing this from anything other than tony william's dreaming outloud?

the american military design philosophy is that equipment is cheap, soldiers aren't. as a nation, the us is more than willing to spend large amounts of money on r&d and procurement in the hopes that it means having to spend less on bodybags. it all goes through a bureacracy so it doesn't always work out that way, but it's how things are supposed to go. i got no problem whatsoever with them spending vast amounts of money and deciding that what we've got now is better than what's been developed to replace it.

i will withhold comment on the really cool stuff the russians would field if they had the funds.

Good points pauli. I will add that spending millions of dollars and wasting millions of dollars are two different things. In saying "waste," it's assumed that nothing was learned, no one profited intellectually or technologically, and that there was nothing in the testing that we didn't already know before it was undertaken. Sometimes a simple, effective technology is a great thing. Sometimes just defaulting to that and never trying to discover new ways of doing things is the worst thing. It's just a matter of choice, and the US chose to discover what the XM8 had to offer, finding that it wasn't the best.

If people want the XM8 in the game, then put it in. Someone should start a poll.

GUYS


THIS IS A GAME, NOT RL

THE M8 IN THE GAME WILL NOT HAVE THE BARREL CRACK AT RANDOM

THERE IS NO DEFENSE BUDGET IN THE GAME, WE HAVE EVERYTHING THERE

Gawd.

Yes but having the XM-8 in at all is something worth discussing.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/ar...s/20051103.aspx

well it ofiacily got the can

Make it use 6.8x43mm caliber ammunition. That stuff has a more consistent performance.

So is that new USMC grenade launcher going to be used into the XM25 enters service? Looks like a great weapon for building clearing in Iraq. Soldiers love using the MK19 against buildings. Just put grenades through the windows and clear most of the house out.

Whoa, i actually like that. Maybe spec ops gets weapons using 6.8x43mm? Or some choice of them.

that would be sweet

I thought some XM8s have been issued to units on a limited basis already. There could be a few scattered around maps if people really don't want them.

Why model, skin, code a weapon to be "scattered" around.

I say take the same steps with the G-36 series and apply it to the M-4/M-16 weapons. With different variants using different sights, GLs, shotguns, etc.

High Kids hate reading 416 pages

First time it didn't complete the trials. Second time is is rumored to have barely made it thru, and it came in near the tail end of the pack.



The Infantry rifle version had a 12 inch barrel. The Sniper/DMR/LMG versions had a 20 inch barrel.



I know perfectly well how lethal 5.56x45 is. I am talking about fragmentation. The M-855 load has piss poor fragmentation properties and as a result needs all the velocity it can get. Ergo, a 12 inch barrel will perform worse than a 14.5 inch barrel due difference in velocity.



An improvement? Not hardly. Easier to maintain? Maybe. More reliable? Doubtful. More lethal? Not a chance.



If its the one that is supposed to use caseless ammo, then yes. But thats a long ways off. And the next rifle we issue will be a standardized in all 5 services. (AF, Army, USMC, USN, USGC)



Not a chance. H&K designed it, they'll build it. As for Colt, it will be a happy day when they go out of business. The M-4 contract is the only thing keeping their doors open. Cause the civilian market is pretty ###### at them about some political decisions they have made.

Hears what i learned today (in simplified Forum terms)

The government got Pissy at H&K for taking to dang long,but did not take away their contract, but SOCOM started desining the project for some reason (i blame HypersonicGTX). Now the government is mad at SOCOM and have put the XM8 system on the shlef while some plolotical stuff is figured out.

And this sourcs IS confirmed. So this thread might as well be closed

Ok, thats a little weird.

From what I understand:

HK works with Army officials on XM-8 for 3 years without competetion after shelving of OCIW.
SOCOM announces SCAR competetion.
HK enters XM-8 in SCAR trial #1 cause they don't want another competetor for the general service rifle. XM-8 fails. Miserably.
Government reevaluates XM-8, HK 'improves' design, petetions for new trial.
Second SCAR trial occurs. More entries from US designers. XM-8 completes trials, but is near the bottom of the results. (The Leitner Wise MRS was near the top, as was the M-416)
US Army realizes XM-8 is not going to work in the field, and suspends the contract 'pending review'.

Army issues new request for proposals for a modular small arms weapon family TO REPLACE current M-16 series. Many M-16 upgrades are recieved that meet the criteria.

Army places that hold while 'reevaluating requirements'. Meaning the XM-8 is dead.

didn'n the FN SCAR win the SCAR competition??
if so, it should be in and no Hk 416 or m8

It won the first one.

There is only speculation on who officially won the second, but I believe it was a different entry. The SCAR came in near the top however.

Krazny, is it true thaty Steyr entered the AUG in the OICW Phase 1 competition?

what the heck does SCAR stand for anyway

Special Forces Combat Assualt rifle (I Think).