Appears that the latest successful modification of the KA 52 will be entering serial production as of October. The defense ministry expects a couple hundred by 2015 (numbers vary from source to source)

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081013/117707666.html

Looks like they took an A-6 shot down over Vietnam and decided to make a helicopter out of it.

LOL!

The front cockpit and fuselage, yes. But this helicopter is extremely safe compared to any others. It's got an ejection system. The rotors blow off and the whole cockpit lifts out the the rest of the body and parachutes to safety. Why the hell hasn't the U.S. thought of this before the Russians?

~Heartburn

Whos the lucky bastard to tried the ejection seat first.

Because US choppers have the habit of not being shot down.

Ugh... I think I might have started another "mine is bigger than yours" situation.... feck me.

~Heartburn

yeah, some comments are pretty much dumb, unlike Heartburn´s and its funny people around here had no clue about this´new´kamov. Pretty much says for itself.

They HAVE. Several prototypes were tried. But they chose a different way = autorotation + strong body of the helicopter + some safety features.

Thats so true. I didn't pick it until you pointed it out. What a bastard child.



Yeah they just crash all the time instead in the middle of a combat zone while being fired at... And then the Australian troops nearby have to go and rescue the ****ers.



[corrected]
But they chose a different way = autorotation + strong body of the helicopter + some safety features - all the armour and weapons - the speed - the agility

Man, I thought the thread title meant I could get tasty gator meat down at the deli. ):

What is the purpose of those 2 "arrows" on the nose of that heli?


ps. does anyone know the release date of Black Shark?

They look like regular old pitot tubes, but since they are on a Russian helicopter I am sure they are some kind of super sophisticated uber death weapon that is light years ahead of the rest of the world and something that most certainly silly, inept Americans could never hope to develop or understand because we are quite the bunch of bumbling idiots.

the forums are up again, and within hours we have a neat, cosy litle thread like this

nice chopper btw, always liked Kamov's funky double rotor stuff

no idea if the Black Shark project is still alive :/ hope it is. It's been in the works so long that it's becoming outdated I think (by PC game standards)

and the little arrows you are talking about are probably some kind of monitoring system just like on any aircraft.



and you have some growing up to do it seems.

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Regarding the ejection system, the rotors are jettisoned and the pilot/gunner are ejected sideways. It is a light helicopter but can withstand up to 30mm fire around the cockpit area. Has great all-weather capabilities and is much more agile than fantail gunships (due to double rotors)

There is one disadvantage to Kamov's dual-rotor system however. A standard configuration gunship can still land with a rotor blade or two damaged or missing. This system will make the aircraft go out of control in case of damage to the rotor due to the lack of a stabilizing fantail.



Gunfire maybe, what about shoulder-fired AA?

So Russian helicopters never crash? The AH-1Z and AH-64D are in no way behind the KA-52 in those departments anyway. I would say they are pretty matched in terms of capability.

I have talked to guys who maintain Blackhawks and restore them when they come home to the United States and the sands of Iraq and much of the Middle East are damn awful for any helicopters even with the filters and rotor blade coatings we have on them. The sand can turn any small mechanical problem into a crash.

As for a lack of ejection seats, both the AH-1Z and AH-64D designs would require some modification and increases in complexity, not to mention there are still dangers to the pilot and nearby helicopters. Generally the Army would rather make their designs as crash-proof as possible. Hey we are the guys providing most of the air support across Afghanistan and Iraq, our troops would gladly save your pilot's asses providing CSAR does not get the task.

The KA-50 and KA-52 are not really "new" designs, but economic issues have largely prevented them from being produced in decent numbers. I believe the plan was to get a mix of KA-50s and KA-52s since the two-seater is much better for night and poor weather operations. I am not certain what this means for the modernized MI-28N.

I do believe the Ka-52 will direct Ka-50s to a target, AKA squad tactics in heli form.

Jesus christ, look what I started. Another pissing contest.

~Heartburn

Im not saying the AH 64 is inferior to the Ka 52. The Longbow is an excellent chopper and an exceptional tank buster. I think, however, the KA 52 is incorrectly compared to the AH 64. I think the Mi 28 and Ah 64 are essentially mirrors of one another in the way they look, handle, the armor disposition, lack of ejection system, and the tasks they are intended to perform. The launching of the Ka 52 project doesnt mean anything for the Mi 28, because that program has already been launched and the two choppers essentially perform two different tasks so they are not in competition with one another.

I can't really think of an equivalent for the KA 52, but I think the AH 1Z is probably your best bet. A lighter, faster, reconaissance-type aircraft. You are right about how the Ka 52 isn't technically "new", but with the improving Russian economy and the need for a better equipped army (August 2008 War) caused the re-initiation of the project.
The single-seated cousin (Ka 50) proved itself exceptionally well in Chechnya for special forces operations.

Don't forget, the Ah 64 saw maiden flight in the mi-80s and it's being perfected today as we speak.

On a different note, the Ka 52 implements some stealth elements as well, reducing IR signature near it's engines to give shoulder-fired AA systems a difficult time. It's a safer chopper all-round.

But stressing my previous point, it is intended for special operations - perhaps urban environments due to it's agility or difficult weather conditions. Unlike the Mi 28 which is a tank buster intended to eventually replace the Mi 24.

Weight concerns? It just seems like that system would be very complex and very heavy.

Always has intrigued me though.

Jesus christ guys! Just stop it with this thread ruining pissing contest sht!

~Heartburn

compared to most topics, this is mild.

Personally i like the double-rotor look much better than the tail rotor design. I always thought the blackshark was the most intimidating heli around. I also think the double-rotor system is much safer because, the tail rotor is much easier to damage than a main rotor. My only complaint is the lack of shielding between the two rotors. it seems like too many exposed parts that could be susceptible to dust or gunfire. I do like the side mounted gun. 30mm cannon? looks like it was stolen off a hind. im betting that would be loud as hell when fired since its right next to the cockpit.

Seriously, this thread isn't bad at all imo.


The two rotor system has the potential to be safer that the traditional rear rotor, but right now it is far too delicate. From what I've heard, one hit to the rotor assembly will bring the bird down. Hard.

For now, I'm all for NOTAR. That system is pretty slick, much safer and more simple than the tail rotor or the dual rotor design.

But yes. Both the Ka-50 and the Ka-52 are two of the most intimidating and sweetest looking birds around.

Except NOTAR eats up fuel like I like my sex - fast and hard.

Aww, look at the widdle wuskies and their widdle helicopters trying to be big boys now. How cute.

You missed my point. Someone pretty much said US helicopters aren't in the habit of being shot down. My comment was that they end up 'crashing' while getting shot at but rarely ever seem to get shot down. The reason for this obviously is that it sounds better in the news if a helicopter crashes then if it is shot down.



So can bullets

hopefully, the rotors ejection system don't activate like a certain fire suppresion system did.

Oh my gosh, that would freaking comic gold right there!

On topic the helo rocks IMO.

Thanks guys, i never knew what their purpose was .

It would be a shame if the Black Shark project was cancelled, it looks like a awesome simulator so far.

That would indeed be comic gold. I wonder if it could fly if say 1 set of rotors ejected. I wonder if they've built protection for that into the flight control software or manual:

"If top rotor ejects attempt to acquire rear tail rotor for use in controlling aircraft spin!"

maybe it has a wee little tail rotator popping out in that case... you never know with them pesky Russians

lol
...
the 30 mm cannon is 2A42 used in Mi-28, Ka-50, BMP-2, BTR-90 (at least as far as I know)

Erm, how? Doesn't it just run from exhaust from the turbine engine?

LOL? The turbine engine burns fuel to spin which drives a shaft that spins the rotors. If it ran on exhaust from the turbine engine, that would be like saying I only had to put fuel in my car once, and then it just burned the exhaust it produced so it can run indefinitely.

~Heartburn

Heartburn, he's talking about the NOTAR system. Wiki it.

Apparently you know even less about NOTAR than I do...

NOTAR = pain in the ass.

Because? xD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOTAR

Looking very nice, yep, the forward Fuz' does look a little Intruder-ish, with a Fencer style/roofline/shape cockpit trainsparency.



Yep they look like Pitot Tubes, as for having two, I'd imagine that now Russia is able to get good homegrown software and hardware; of which most made in Taiwan or China, same as nearly of everone elses for that matter- I mean, Chips and Circuitry/Hardware components... That there's some cross wind measuring facility and maybe also so automatic Tourque Reactions Differential/System to allow easier yawing and 'straight' vector flying by modulating the power between the Rotors.

Also, incase of battle damage/FOD/HUVBO, theres a back up one.

Note: No disrespect is meant with the HUVBO, if it was a Finnish Vehicle, it would have come pre-equiped with one, and a Breathaliser Enabled Ignition System.

Says nothing about igniting its own exhaust as fuel for the helicopter.

~Heartburn

Neither does my post. xD

It's still alive and kicking... As a matter of fact, it's already out in Russia (since 2 weeks I think), and it's being released in early 2009 for the rest of zee world...

True, you didn't TG; although I haven't heard of many NOTARS doing that either, let alone any Alligators...

It might be fun to see such an act though, a heli version of an F-111 Raven/Blue Fox doing a Flame Burn.