2 days ago a danish soldier got killed in Afganistan by a IED, (all respect to him and his family )

Today the danish defence ministry announced the arrival of a new weapon for our troops down there.

An Area Defence Munition (ADM) flechette round, sprays 1100 steeldarts fired at 300m/s over an area of 10-12 squaremeters
The new round will be used in our beloved Swedish made Carl Gustav M2 recoilless rifle (in DK Dysekanon M/79) and is designed to shoot Talibans out of corn fields, opium fields, and w/e they may be hiding in.

does Denmark use Finnish weapons too?

Nice. Nothing quite like a 84mm shotgun. Besides for perhaps a 105mm or 120mm shotgun on a tank.

I think it would be a good choice if we bought a few more Carl Gustavs (M3 MAAWS) for our regular forces. That or a modernized version of the M67 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_recoilless_rifle.

I thought the US used the Carl Gustav. I knew Australia did but I honestly thought the US did as well. Kinda reminds me a little of the 40mm buckshot that the US used in Vietnam ... cept more scary. Fear of needles > fear of pellets.

killer jr ftw!

I think the only finnish weapon in use in the danish army is the finnish Sako TRG, being used by our sharpshooters.

Rest of weapons are American or German, exept our assault rifles (C7 and C8) Canadian licensed copy of M4 and M16, if anyone didnt know,

Canadian M16s got that full auto stuff in addition to burst fire.

Aren't flechette rounds banned by Geneva convention??

Nope, now all you need is a Canister round for the Gustav and you'd have yourself a boomstick.


Speaking of Gustav, I might be having to go MIA 'cause of Hurricane Gustav.

Reminds me of the 'Beehive' Round used by 'Pigs' - the M50 Ontos, a round that has largely been neglected since the USMC was unable to keep its M50's working since the late 60's.

Well, Canister rounds do the same job pretty much.

The only real difference between a Cannister/'Beehive' M546 APERS-T Round, and this ADM Gustav Round is largely its caliber and the amount of contained flechettes & explosives.

I remeber reading stories sometime back, that some US Arty & Marine personnel sometimes made their own version filled with old nuts, bolts, scrap metal, damaged bullets, shotgun pellets & stones etc for 90mm & 105mm assault/support weapons. Though these 'homemade'/idegeniously created munitions were normally only used in defencive actions, wheres as the M546 APERS-T was used more offencively.

I dont think flechette are banned, but Amnesti International and other human rights organisations definitely dont like the use of them.

But IMO the Geneva Convention is mostly a piece of bullcrap, of course NATO soldiers should not go around blowing up civilians, but the enemy we are fighting today have never heard of the Geneva Convention and the certainly doesnt respect it.

If a cluster of 1100 sharp darts is what can keep Taliban at bay, it should be made 100% legalized

now really. when did THAT ever stop anyone from anything in a real war.

so was shooting down paratroopers in mid-air.
in reality it was quite different, am I right?

War ain't perfect. **** happens.

I'd be more inclined to say war is evil incarnate. You go to war ... bad things are guaranteed to happen. Innocent people will lose their lives, 'proud & good' servicemen will do attrocious things and 'terrible and ferocious' enemies will do amazing things. War is an equaliser but it does so down in the depths of the worst parts of humanities consciousness.

So maybe war is perfect at turning everything to **** is a more accurate statement.

It's also good for making 1 1/2 years pay in 7 months, tax free .

I thought the LAW was out of service. Might go read up on that soon.

I think Australia uses the AT-4 & Carl Gustav exclusively but thats only from what I've been told by soldiers and I find that if they're not in the right sort of unit they're actually pretty clueless to the equipment used elsewhere.

We also use the AT-4 in DK, along with the Carl Gustav. The AT4 is mostly only usefull for hardned target, where the Carl Gustav is more versalite

Still lots of LAW in service, used mainly for troops hiding behind walls/technicals.

The Carl Gustav (simply called RFK in Norwegian service), is a truly versatile and devastating weapon. Only real drawback in my opinion, is the weight (we still use the all-metal M2 variant).. Last year we were trying some new sighting systems, with built in laser rangefinder, which automatically calibrated the sight in for the desired range. Also came with NV and thermal modules, pure sweetness!
Anyways; remember seeing this close-in flechette round in a Carl Gustav promotional video a couple of years back.. looked terrifying, and very effective. Glad to see the Danish government is actually taking steps to ensure the safety and survivability of their troops abroad, unlike certain other Scandinavian governments...
Maybe we'll start using these rounds too now that the Danes have realized it's potential! **One can only hope**

Looks like they get new APCs too, instead of that old junk they use ATM.
It should protect a lot better against IEDs.

Whoa, is that the Mk 3 CV9035?
Know the Danes and Dutch were buying those, but didn't know they were in service, let alone would be deployed to Afghanistan!
Good vehicle though, we've had them in Afghanistan for several years, and they've coped with the desert fairly well! No big issues I've ever heard of at least! Not like the **cough cough** Iveco LMV's *cough***
Anyways, the Norwegian CV90's are being sent back home to Norway, N forces will from now on solely be using the Iveco LMV as main means of transportation down there.. Hope to Christ they have sorted out the issues we experienced with it this spring though! Damn cut-backs..- IFV's have proven themselves time and time again to be a formidable weapon that REALLY works down there! And now we're shipping them away...
A little off topic, sorry 'bout that..

Edit: Just to clarify; Norway use the CV9030N/F1 (Mk 2)

They(45) should be ready for service in 2010

Offtopic - sort of.

I've always liked the look of the Swedish CV-90 series, like Volvo's, there boxy (looking), but good; to me the look like British FV 432 with a AMX 13 sized Leopard 1 styled turret on it.

I like the look of them also. There is a 120mm version which makes the arnament on most other IFV's look fairly weak. I'm pretty much thinking to myself right now that Australia should've gotten these to replace our Leopards. I know its a different kind of vehicle but our requirement was direct fire support for infantry ... and thats pretty much what an IFV is.

The 35mm Bushmaster III seen on the picture higher up, is a pretty awesome gun, and a lot more sophisticated than the 30mm Bushmaster II used in the CV9030's.. Of course the larger calibre, but also the ability to fire programmable (airburst) ammunition makes it fairly useful for it's purpose of being an IFV to, well, support the infantry..
I think the CV90120 has been cancelled, but there is still a CV90105 fire support vehicle that hasn't been discarded yet.. Or maybe it was the other way 'round...?
Again; sorry for off topic discussion.. I'll stop now

Well I don't believe the CV90120 keeps any real troop carrying capability. Indeed it is quite an impressive vehicle and is sort of a forerunner to the XM1202 MCS we are developing. Yet you do lack the heavy armor that the Abrams you guys bought or other modern MBTs provide. Even if you did have a tank caliber cannon on your IFV some autocannons are still nice to have.

I agree that the 35mm Bushmaster III is a damn impressive gun Denver3000. Personally I think our military should have gone to it from the current 25mm Bushmaster (this seemed to be the plan back before the post-Cold War budget cuts). Yet we have decided to go to the 30mm Bushmaster II instead, which is planned for the EFV, the XM1206 ICV, and upgrades which have been offered for the M2 Bradley.

We also got a bunch 3 Leopard 2A5 in Afghanistan, they work good as detecting IED's, unfortunately the IED's tends to explode. But still better they explode next to a MBT, than a light viechel.

Just found out we only have 3 tanks down there, appearently that was all they could stuff into the An-225 flying them

Don't understand why more nations don't use MBTs down there.. The Canadians too have used them to great effect!

We've got ASLAV's for autocannons at present and while the 25mm is pretty weak compared to the Bushmaster III. The ASLAV's would also do for troop transport. As for the heavy armour, I'm not too sure we need that. I mean yeah, we have a lot of open territory but an enemy tank formation would be suiciding if it went there. There is so little water & fuel they'd starve themelves before our aboriginal northern patrols ate them for breakfast. Our main need for big direct fire guns is not for armour engagements. Its for supporting the infantry. I think our emphasis on tanks is a conservative throw-back to our ideals of being European and all that. We should be forging ahead with a new sort of defence force ... ironic that for this force I envisage a Swedish vehicle though.



Nothing wrong with the 25mm & 30mm Bushmasters. They're still a lot bloody bigger then a 12.7mm or most small arms.

Because other nations that either don't have MBT's, will have APC's/IFV's or can be loaned them from UN arms contractors. Also the fact that the military brasses (of the protaganist nations; UK included - didn't think that MBT's would work as well as they have, after they were used by the Soviets.

MBT based IFV's could be the way to go, akin to ISDF HAPC's Namer, Nemerah & Nagmachon etc

Namer (Tiger)
Nemerah (Tigeress)
Nagmachon (an acronym for Nagmash (APC) and Gashon (belly)

well.. afghanistan isn't very tank friendly because the land mostly consist of rocky mountains and desert. But the demoralizing effect of a 30 tons tank aiming at your position cant be denied.

Actually thats pretty good tank territory. Tanks have excellent cross country performance and open terrain makes it hard for anti-tank elements to ambush and given the Taliban are probably not well equipped with long range missiles (the open terrain tank killer) they're going to have a lot of trouble with MBT's.

Nice Point by Senoir, as was SuperEiga's. True the Neuvo Taliban (pro drugs; is this the 'Modern Opium War' within the larger 'War of Terror' ? sorry my thinking went off track/sproket) might not have the latest or the best ATGM/RPG's but if they happen to fire down from a montain ledge/cave etc, the top of nearly all APC's/MBT's etc are notorously thin in-comparison to other portions of that vehicle. Designer 'Bird Cage' Roofing anyone, next years must have accessory, along with stronger floor blast kits, suspension, track pins, transmission,torque etc.

LOL

Anyways, the terrain in Afghanistan is rather extreme, some parts consist of rocky, mountainous areas (like the Hindu Kush ridges coming down from the Himalayas), extreme mountain passes (like the Salaang Pass, between the north and Kabul (the Soviets definately had a hard time there, wrecks of armor everywhere)), and of course; wide, open plains of desert..
Here are some pics I took from the plane etc, just to give you a slight idea of how it might look, and how fast it goes from rocky hell, to open, tank-commander's-wet-dream desert...



















These pics are mainly from the northern parts, however in the south (Helmand, Kandahar etc..), where the Canadians use their Leopards, you don't see these huge mountain passes and the likes.. it's a lot more flat overall..
What I do know as well, is the success they have had using MBTs in difficult terrain, where their LAVs might have problems, especially in "green" areas (like poppy fields for an example)..
As you might know, there are a lot of mines in Afghanistan, and from what I have heard they have dedicated anti-mine tanks with mine-plows mounted in most platoons..
Sorry if this is concidered off topic